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1980-01-09
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Article 4741 of sci.physics:
Path: dasys1!cucard!rocky8!cmcl2!rutgers!ucsd!ames!lll-winken!uunet!mcvax!cernvax!jon
From: jon@cernvax.UUCP (jon)
Newsgroups: sci.physics,sci.research,sci.space
Subject: Electrochemically induced nuclear fusion
Keywords: This IS for real
Message-ID: <967@cernvax.UUCP>
Date: 31 Mar 89 14:17:58 GMT
Followup-To: sci.physics
Organization: CERN, Geneva, Switzerland
Lines: 95
Xref: dasys1 sci.physics:4741 sci.research:664 sci.space:8407
Posted: Fri Mar 31 09:17:58 1989
This is a summary of a talk given by Professor Fleischmann at CERN, Geneva
on Friday 31st March. I should point out that I am a computer programmer and
not a physicist or a chemist, so therefore not all my understanding of the
facts may be 100% correct, but I kept notes so hopfully the following will
make some sense. Also this was strictly a scientific seminar, no questions
were allowed on the non-scientific aspects of the talk. In fact the camera
crews of various TV stations were asked to leave before the talk began.
But they were given a chance to interview Professor Fleischmann after the
seminar.
It has taken Prof. Fleischmann and his collegue 5 years to get this far
and they had hoped to keep the experiment secret for about another 18 months
so they could be 100% certain of the results. But the results where "leaked"
(This was news to me, any confirmation?), and then they had the "awful news
conference", as he called it. They also funded the experiment privately
because they didn't think anyone would give them money for such a mad idea.
The equation in the at the palladium cathode is as follows
D2O + e- <=> Dabs + OD-
Dabs <=> Dlattice
Dabs + D2O + e- <=> D2 + OD-
Dabs = Absorbed Deuterium
Dlattice = Deuterium in the Palladium lattice
The deuterium in the lattice is very mobile.
He then said something that I quite didn't understand and gave the figure
of 0.8eV. I think this is the potential of the deuterium in the lattice.
This 0.8eV is equivalent to a pressure of 10^27 atm for gaseous deuterium.
The QM of the s-electron density of the Deuterium is VERY strange and is
not understood.
In the lattice the following nuclear reactions occur
2D + 2D -> 3T + 1H + 4.03MeV
2D + 2D -> 3He + n + 3.77Mev
Their first experiment was with a palladium cube, this finished when the
cube ignited, in the nuclear sense. The conclusion of this is that this
reaction does not fail safe. When it starts to run hot it runs very hot.
The cube almost burnt down their fume cupboard. But at least the effects
are not quite as serious as a meltdown of a fission reactor.
They then tried sheets before finally trying rods. These rods a 10cm long
and have diameters of 1mm ,2mm and 4mm. The best results are with the 4mm rod
therefore the reaction is dependent on volume as opposed to surface area, it
also seems to be dependant on temperature.
After 100 hours the measured output was 5MJ / cm3. They managed to detected
neutrons, gamma-rays and 5 fold increase in the tritrium in the heavy water.
They didn't manage to get a energy spectrum for the neutrons.
They calulated there are 10^4 neutron producing events/sec but to account
for the energy released there must be 10^13 events/sec, this means that
the prefered reaction path does not produce neutrons. They do not know
what this path is but lithium was being mentioned.
The efficiency of their cell is "miserable" and their best result was 111%
of breakeven (i.e. 100% => power in == power out), but they predicte that
with a properly designed cell their efficiency could be over 1200%, i.e.
10 times out what you put in.
It takes 3 months to charge a cell before it starts to produce anything.
That's the end of my notes, now for some editorial comments.
I personally could see nothing wrong with his explanation of the phenomena,
there is no known chemical reaction which can produce the amounts of energy
involved. It has to be nuclear fusion. Whether or not this is going to have
any practical use is still to be seen, as Prof. Fleischmann said a lot of
work now has to go into understand why and how this is happening. There
were some very worried theoretical physicists leaving the hall after the
talk, and there were mumbles about rewriting the theory of quantum mechanics.
The are going to be a hell of a lot of papers on cold fusion in the next
years!!
*---------------------------------------------------------------*
| |
| Jon Caves {world}!mcvax!cernavx!jon |
| Division DD, jon@cernvax.cern.ch |
| CERN CH-1211, |
| Geneva 23, "Quote? I haven't got time to think |
| Switzerland. of a quote!" |
| |
*---------------------------------------------------------------*
Article 4770 of sci.physics:
Path: dasys1!cucard!rocky8!cmcl2!lanl!hc!pprg.unm.edu!unmvax!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!mailrus!cornell!uw-beaver!blake!oregon!rhaller
From: rhaller@oregon.uoregon.edu
Newsgroups: sci.physics
Subject: differences between pons group and the byu group findings
Message-ID: <524@oregon.uoregon.edu>
Date: 1 Apr 89 10:45:57 GMT
Organization: University of Oregon
Lines: 45
Posted: Sat Apr 1 05:45:57 1989
I now think have a pretty clear picture of what happened. So far there are two
independent discoveries that have been submitted for publication. I will call
them the SLC and the BYU teams. The SLC team surfaced first in a news
conference called on 3/23, I believe, by the Un. of Utah at their instigation,
not the experimenters. See previous notices for more info. This is
counter to normal scientific practice which is to wait until after formal
publication.
The BYU group instead kept a low profile following tradition, though there was
a rumor that a press conference was called yesterday at MIT. This has not been
confirmed on the net as of 9am today.
Both teams report accelerated rates of fusion using similar apparatus.
However, there is an extremely significant difference. The SLC team also
reports lots of heat produced: 3-4 times as much as would be predicted from the
observed rate of neutron emmission. In fact, if that amount of heat were to
come from the same fusion reaction that they actually detected, there should
have been 10**9 times as many neutrons and they would be dead men.
The BYU team reports no such heat. They report the same numbers and energies
as SLC of neutrons, et cetera, but no excess and unexpected heat. They also
report no important difference between palladium and titanium as the negative
electrode. However, the Pons seminar summary reports that Pons says that while
they observed the neutron emmissions with 'other metals', only the palladium
showed the excess heat. Another difference in the experiments that may or may
not be important is that BYU used gold foil for the postive electrode while SLC
used a coil of platinum surrounding a palladium rod (negative electrode). Also,
in the electrolyte. Not enought detail published yet on the SLC electrolyte to
tell.
Another difference is that my reading of the BYU preprint leads me to conclude
that their process stopped emitting neutrons after about 8 hours of operation
and that it appears to have something to do with deposits forming on the
negative electrodes. SLC on the other hand claims operations for extended
periods with a net output of more energy than is put in.
What does this all mean? It means that one of two things is true. Either SLC
has discovered a new non-chemical process that generates heat and might
therefor have commercial applications, or they have goofed somewhere and the
heat is being produced by some chemical process. Speculation on the net
includes oxidation of hydrogen produced by the electrolysis. Pons makes a case
in the seminar summary that no known chemical or nuclear reactions can explain
what they have found. Only time will tell. If it turns out to be a chemical
process that is being in someway catalyzed by the concurrent cold fusion, it
still might turn out to have commerical and cultural implications.